EU is a capitalistic programme

John Hilary is Executive Director of War on Want - an organisation based in London. It fights against poverty and inequality, global fairness and a better world for everyone. Hilary is interested in economic and trade issues. He is author of The Poverty of Capitalism: Economic Meltdown and the Struggle for What Comes Next (2013). Hilary is one of the chief experts and most active campaigners against the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). Hilary is author of the TTIP brochure that has been published in Bulgarian with in cooperation with Solidarna Bulgaria association.

"Not having control over one's own decisions is one of the major problems of the EU"

"Some social democratic parties are trying to suggest that it is still possible to hold the idea of a social contract between the capital and the society as a whole"

"TTIP is being used as a weapon against Russia"

"NATO and the EU pressure on Russia that seems to be very dangerous"

"The crisis of Syria, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon are a result of the imperialist wars started by the European countries"

- Greenpeace has recently published more than 240 pages of the negotiating documents on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). Mr. Hilary, can you describe it as a victory for the European citizens and the opponents of the agreement? Having in mind the statements of leading European politicians, do you expect the negotiations to be stopped or slowed down?
- Yes, it's a victory for the European citizens, because right from the beginning of the negotiations the European Commission put a 30-year ban on public access to any of the key documents in TTIP. And these are exactly key documents to us, to the public. These texts reveal the positions of the US and the European side in the negotiations. The European Commission has forbidden the access to these important documents. And now as a result of these leaks we can see them for the first time. It's an important development. Unfortunately this is not because we won the right to see the documents, but simply because they were leaked. The documents are very useful for us, but at the same time it does not change the level of secrecy that the European Union is using in the negotiations.
I do not think the negotiations will stop immediately. The European Commission and the US will try to continue with the talks, but it is extremely difficult for them to maintain political support. We saw that in some of the comments made immediately after the leaked documents were published - for example from the French President and the German Vice Chancellor and Economy Minister. It will be increasingly difficult and dangerous for politicians to be in support to TTIP because of the huge resistance of the Europeans.
- What have the documents really shown? Are our biggest fears confirmed?
- Definitely. Until now, it was clear the direction in which TTIP is going, i.e. proposals, plans, a number of reports which raise serious concern. Now in these leaked documents we've been able to see the actual texts and it confirms that our fears were justified particularly around the central issue in TTIP which is around the deregulation - the weakening and the elimination of key social and environmental standards that we wish to preserve, but now they are simply called barriers to trade. This is one of the main reasons that we consider to be a real threat.
- What about the similar agreement between EU and Canada (CETA)? Is it going to be signed?
- It's a very interesting question, particularly from the Bulgarian context. You know for example that most member states have said they would like to sign the agreement. It is due to be presented in June to the European Council. The aim is to be signed after the summer break in September or October. But there is a new and very important problem that has been raised by Bulgaria and Romania in relation to the visas in Canada. It seems to us to be an extraordinary discrimination by the Canadian government against the Bulgarian and Romanian citizens. I think that both governments must stand up for the principle and say they would not allow CETA to be ratified unless this issue is resolved.
Later this year, the document has to go to the European Parliament for ratification. We expect the ratification process to continue until the spring of 2017. It will be a very difficult battle for the European Commission to ratify the document. We have also learned that the European Council - government and state leaders have said CETA must be a mixed agreement and therefore it needs to be ratified by each of the parliaments of all the member states. I think this would be very difficult for them because so many member states have said they don't want this to happen. The European Commission has got its secondary position wanting a provisional application of CETA so they want it to be able to put in place the measures of CETA even before it has been ratified by the national parliaments. Quite anti-democratic tool, I would say.
- The democratic deficit is a major problem of the EU. It is also threatened by collapse. The time to the EU referendum in Britain is counting, what are the moods among the Britains?
- It is now taking up so much in our media, it is all full of the referendum. This is a very important decision. If we leave the European Union, it would be an extraordinary shift for both the EU and the UK itself. Increasingly we are hearing more and more people that are against the EU. There is a much greater momentum now behind the people who are voting to leave the EU. This is due to the fact that they are seeing more and more about the EU. In Britain 99% of the people have no direct experience of how the European Union works, have no direct contact with the European institutions like the European Commission or the European Central Bank for example. They have never had to deal with the same problems as Greece or Ireland, where the troika creditors - the European Commission, ECB and IMF told them what to do with their economies. So people here don't really have a very deep understanding of the European Union. As a result of the debate that is taking place now, people are learning more and more about the EU and a great majority are seeing the deep problems which are involved of not having control over one's own decisions.
- Regardless of the outcome of the referendum it is a sign for the EU's future. Euroscepticism is gaining more and more strength. How do you see the future of the EU?
- The European Union has a very serious choice to make - the EU has to choose whether it wishes to become more open, more transparent, more democratic and actually to offer something to its people. I think at the moment it's clear the EU is a capitalist program that offers benefits to big business and transnational capital, and at the same time - fewer and fewer to its actual population. That's the big challenge. If the European Union wants to survive and become stronger, it needs to rebalance its objectives. On the one hand, we must have a social Europe that cares for its citizens, a social and environmental inspiration to its people. And on the other hand - a global and competitive Europe. Unfortunately, now the focus is only on this second Europe, not on the social side.
- How do you accept the comparison between the EU and Hitler that the former mayor of London Boris Johnson has made?
- I do not think this is particularly clever and appropriate comparison. Today much more important is to start looking at the real examples of the EU in action. For us TTIP and CETA are very good examples, but it is also important to look at the experience ot the Greek people. Last year they had a terrible experience from the European Commission and when they voted for an alternative, they were told there is no alternative.
- Yes, there is no alternative as we see now what's happening in Greece...
- Right. I think it's a really incredible challenge to the people of Europe - if you want a different future, you have to think very carefully about your membership in the EU.
- We are seeing one, I would define it, a worrying trend in Europe. In many European countries the traditional political parties are losing their power. On the other hand, some moods as nationalism are rising up. The European citizens are so disappointed of the traditional political parties they have trusted. What has to be done to cope with that problem?
- This is a really good question. I think you are absolutely right. The key issue here is that there are still some social democratic parties who believe that we are still existing in the 70s, 80s of the last century. They are trying to suggest that it is still possible to hold this idea of a social contract between the capital and the society as a whole. Unfortunately that social contract has been broken because of the austerity policy. So the new parties of the far-right and far-left political sector are challenging the social democratic parties and the centre. That was really leading to the political crisis in Europe. People do not feel their interests are being represented. That's why they are going to another parties - both from the right and the left.
- European leaders seem so helpless in solving major crisis in Europe today - the migrant crisis. With this in mind, how do you assess EU policy towards Turkey and in particular the attitude of Chancellor Angela Merkel to Ankara?
- It is a real problem. EU tries to resolve the refugee crisis by shifting the problem to somebody else rather than dealing with it. It has been pushed over towards Turkey and the Turkish government to deal with the problem instead. I think there is a long-term issue for the countries of Europe. Why are the countries of Syria, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon in such crises? It is because of the imperialist wars started by the European countries, particularly the UK. I think that's an extremely important point to remember. The situation today is the result of our imperialist wars that cause the refugee crisis. Our absolutely responsibility is to deal with it.
- Talking about the global scene, how do you estimate the role of the EU on it?
- It is a declining power. It's quite clear that both the EU and the US are declining in terms of their share of global economic output in comparison to the rising economies of Brazil, China, India, South Africa. And also in their terms to project their power across the world. The EU and the US can no longer dictate the rules and the future of world trade, as they did it in the past. Partly the crisis of Europe is a reflection of Europe trying to come to terms with the loss of its power.
- How do you comment on the current relations between the EU and Russia?
- This development is very dangerous. What we've seen certainly in TTIP, it is being used as a weapon against Russia. Quite explicitly indicates that TTIP should be the economic NATO in order to isolate Russia and particularly to break the dependence of some central and eastern European countries on Russian oil and gas exports. This is a central issue for us because we do not want to see a return to the Cold War, we don't want to see a repeat of the twentieth century. We want to see a future where we can work together with other countries. And if NATO and the EU pressure on Russia - whether because of Ukraine or other issues, continues, that seems to be very dangerous. The EU needs to have a much more positive and constructive relationship with Russia.
- Especially in the face of terrorism as a global threat.
- Yes, of course.